I took the liberty to refute one scholarly article  named " A DANCE OF OPPOSING EXTREMES" written by of Md. Zaman posted  on Thu May 23. ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/message/6079 ). In that article (part II) he deliberately used some un-necessary ill-defined word against the secular humanists of this forum. I quote from his article  -

Smart peoples like Abul Kasem, Zaman (Aparthib), et al. having bobbed to the farthest of the arc, are mired in the predicament of "Rationalist-Humanist Extremism". With nuances of their intellectual hubris, they copiously inundate certain e-forum with anti-religion (primarily anti-Islam) vitriol.

 

Such accusation is not new. Many time I have seen that while a secular person refutes a hate-mongering teaching of any dogma, some so-called neutral person always try to portray him as extremists/crypto-Islamists/Hate-mongers etc. While Abul Kasem or Kamran Mirza brings into the light about the brutal slaughter of the Banu Qurayza by Allah's Apostle, or his pedophilic, murderous life, it is repeatedly advertised that they are all hate-mongers. But HATE TO WHOM ? Muhammad died long time ago. There is no way Abul Kasem/Kamran Mirza/fatemolla could hate dead people like Muhammad and even if they did (i.e criticize Muhammad's brutal acts) this would not affect him a bit. BUT Real Hate is when you dislike someone or some people from your belief and discriminate against them, abuse their rights and make their lives a hell. This is what Islam does to the non-Muslims/womankind living in Islamic countries and what Quran prescribes. This is what Hinduism does while it as a dogma promotes castism and thereby violates the rights of Dalits to leave as equal with other citizens.

So it is the dogma that promotes hate not Rationalism, Humanism or the Extremist (in your term) soldiers. Aparthib or Kasem's writings appears to you as extremism because  you  have an ill-defined concept of extremism in your mind. Abul kasem or Aparthibs are neither  promoting hate nor are  they any follower of "Rationalist-Humanist Extremism" ( Hell knows, what does this term means). On the contrary they are outspoken against hateful dogma(s).  A dogma necessarily infringes on other's individual rights and works by intimidation and coercion, not fatemolla, Abul Kasem or  Aparthib. It is the dogmas that can be potentially harmful IF the dogma is implemented puritanically with zeal and vigour. Examples are the dogmatic part of (i.e the political part) of Judaism, Islam, Chrsitianity, Communism, various cults. For more clarification, please read the following post of Aparthib :

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mukto-mona/message/5924


Now, Mr. Zaman, You as society-conscious human being can also sometimes dislike the actions of a group of people who is alive. This also does not necessarily mean that you hate them. You hate their deeds and their mindset but not their persons. All of us freethinkers and humanists hate racism. We hate KKK.  But no one accuses us of promoting hate. We do not discriminate against the Neo-Nazis and the white supremacists. Many freethinkers  do not wish to censor them, ban them or abuse their human rights. On the contrary we defend their rights to say what the hell they want to say even when we hate what they say ( I remember that many freethinkers in this forum were once against the ban of writings of real hate-monger G-Sub in this forum, though they openly showed their disappointment and dissatisfaction on G-Sub's writings). One may hate Golam Azam or  One may hate Motiur rahman Nizami, Moulana mannan or Advani. These people are our enemies. If I write hate material against KKK, It certainly would not mean that I am a hate-monger or I am "Dancing like opposing extreme". So it will be wrong to blame the people who are always outspoken against the hateful racist dogma rather than searching the root cause of dogmatism and hatred.

Mr Zaman said -

THEY freely quote from hadith as if the hadiths are coming directly from the horse's mouth. I am not a labeled rationalist humanist. Nevertheless, even I can discern that the hadith's are not be relied upon for seasoned & rational reasoning.

So when THEY quote hadith like a Moulana (of course at the other end of the spectrum), are not they betraying their own rational intellect? Is this a transient voluntary lowering of the rational antenna just to petrify Islam? If that's the case, they have become a disgrace to your own kind (rationalist). And if that's not the case, their intellectual judgment can’t go unquestioned.

 

Let me tell you one thing. Are you willing to stop Aparthib/Kasem's writing by calling them "mullah" ? Why ? You know what "mullah", "fundamentalism", "dogmatism" means, right ? Fundamentalism is a religious position typically characterized by a rigid adherence to what are perceived to be the most basic and traditional principles and beliefs of that religion. The following are the examples that denote characteristics of "mullah" according to most born again believers:

 
Now tell me from which point of view Mr. Abul Kasem or Aparthib appears to you as "Mullah" ? Don’t you really want some people who would be out-spoken against hate lies, deceit, racism, intolerance, violence,dogmatism and misogyny? Islam and Hinduism stands for all these things and the proof is in the Quran and Vedas. How can any decent human being remain unaffected by all these inhumanities preached in Quran and other hateful dogmas?
Anytime they  quote you something from the Quran that you don’ t like to hear, you call them "mullah". Why ? For how long you want to fool yourself? For how long you are going to keep your heads under the sand? For how long should we try to look for gems of wisdom in the dung?  It seems you do not understand Arabic and have not read the Quran in Arabic. If you had, you would be pleased of the job that the translators have done. They have made it much milder that its original. For example when Muhammad says “beat your wives”. Yusuf Ali translates “beat them (lightly)” He puts lightly in parenthesis and Muhsin Khan adds in parenthesis (If necessary). Others also go out of their way to hide the harshness of this verse saying beat them with a green “grass” or other ridiculous things such as meswak (a light wood used as thooth brush).

 

 

 

Islam does not give the same rights to non-Muslims we give to our enemies who are not even the enemies of Islam. In fact Islam is breaking the law of civilized world. It advocates hate and incites its followers to violence. I hope one day Faith Freedom International can afford to launch a lawsuit against Islam and take it to the court accusing it of hatemongering. Imagine how much scandal this would cause for Islam and if we win, (which of course if politics do not intervene we should win because it is not difficult at all to prove that Islam advocates hate) how Islam would be discredited.


 

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AliSina Wrote:
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No I am not talking about Sunnism and Shiism , I am talking about Muhammad. These ;crimes; as you rightly call them, were perpetrated by Muhammad himself. He assassinated his opponents. He massacred his prisoners of war. He slept with women after killing their husbands, fathers and many relatives. He performed sex on a 8 year 9 months old child at 53. He burned trees and closed the water to entire populations forcing them to surrender and then killing all their men enslaving their women. We are not talking about Sunnism/Shiism. We are talking about Muhammad himself. Yes what he did was crime. How is it possible that you follow a criminal and seek guidance from him?



No, no hate against 'people' is there Ali?. Just hate against some guy named Mohammed (not a person of course!).



Here you accuse me of hatemongering against Muhammad. Muhammad is a dead man. How can one hate a dead man and what it would do to him even if we hated him? Hate is when you inflict harm on someone, abuse him or discriminate against him. How can you do that to a corps? If I say Hitler was a mad criminal is that hate against Hitler? Here I am stating a fact or my judgment based on the observation of the facts. Muhammad raped the women captured in war. He slept with an 8 year 9 months old girl, he massacred his prisoners of war after they surrendered with no fight, enslaved and sold their wives and children, confiscated all their belongings and banished some to the unforgiving dessert to their death. He assassinated his critics, he burned trees, he cursed his enemies even his own uncle. These are facts. Is stating these facts hurtful to you? Would you rather not talk about them and sweep them under the carpet? Why? Why is it painful for you to face the facts? You are either proud of what Muhammad did or you are not. If what he did embarrasses you, you should question your faith. Why do you shoot at the messenger? We are not lying. We are simply quoting the Quran, Your own Quran. But we are quoting the parts that you don’t want to see.

 

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AliSina Wrote:
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Of course we hate Islam just as we hate lies, deceit, racism, intolerance, violence, misogyny and other hateful stuff. But we do not hate anyone, not a single human being, even if that person happens to be the vilest person on the face of the planet. We hate what he does but we do not hate him.



Such friendly words...





You quoted the following verse to proof Quran is such compassionate book.
 

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"...He who kills a life, for other than murder or destruction in the land, it is as if he killed the entire world. And he who saves it (life), it is as if he saved the entire world..." (Quran)


Apart from the fact that this verse is ridiculous because killing one person is not like killing the entire world, Muhammad himself killed thousands of innocent people who did no harm to anyone but simply did not want to believe in him.


Dear Layth,

Please understand that you do not owe to Islam anything. Your ancestors, just like my ancestors, were forced to accept Islam. They were killed and raped. They were captured and sold as slaves. Their children were brainwashed by reading a Quran that they did not understand. This Islam is not from God. It is the hallucination of a very sick mind. Muhammad was a man who was a schizophrenic and a narcissist. He used religion and Allah to impose his will on the gullible people. This man was manipulative and cunning. He was no different from other great narcissists such as Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Idi Amin, Saddam, Osama Bin Laden, Khomeini. These people are hungry for power. They use a cause to attract people and nothing can stop them. They are ruthless, stubborn but intelligent and manipulative. We don’t have to perpetuate the sickness of this lunatic man. See what has happened to our people! See the miserable state in which your nation and mine is found! Our people are filled with hatred, with distrust of all other people. We are emerged in poverty and in ignorance. Though we all had glorious pasts, now all of us are third world countries.
Do not waste your time promoting a hateful cult. Instead join us and help us eradicate it. It is your duty to help your people recover from this sickness called Islam. Our people have no access to facts and therefore are not to be blamed. You and I have this privilege to know the truth. It is treason to our people if we hide these facts and keep rehashing the same lies that have kept them in poverty for the last 1400 years. I urge you and all people who truly love their people and the world to join in our sacred struggle and help liberate the world from Islam. Let us build a united world together. Let us fight against hate and eliminate it. Let us build a hate free world free of discriminations, of prejudices, of violence, and of abuse against women. Let us build a world where no one is called minority, where no one is branded as non-believer, where no one is forced to wear a badge to be recognized as “infidel” or forced to pay a penalty tax for not believing in what the majority believes. Let us stop this madness, let us eradiate hate. Let us plant love.
Don’t you see what our people are doing to each other? Show me one Islamic country where people are at peace! Where Muslims embrace the Jews, the Hindus, the Bahais, the Christians like brothers? Show me one Islamic country where there is no tumult caused by religious fervor. When enough is enough? When we learn to work for peace? How many more lives should be lost until we wake up and address this problem? For how long should we pretend that “Islam is a religion of peace” when the verses of Quran belie our statements and the masses are incited to violence by those very verses of Quran?
Please join the army of light. Join us in our fight against hate, discrimination, violence and ignorance. Let us fight for peace. Let us plant love. Be part of the solution not part of the problem. Islam is a sinking ship. Get out of it and help others get out of it too. The light of the truth has dawned. No darkness of ignorance can withstand it.

With my best wishes

Ali Sina